The Inevtibil Dungeons and dragons 4th eddition Shout out

*Please note: I am not paid for this, this is just me and I may say things you feel are wrong or that you find insulting for some reason? And to you I apologize ahead of time. If I get a fact wrong, or a date wrong or say something you know to be untrue-feel free to correct me. This is Just my Opinion and I may be way off on a lot of stuff or I may be 100% right. , but before we proceed oh Gentile Soul let us remember that I am but one RPG Fan and these are just opinions and insights that I offer based on my 40 year association with this Hobby as Player, Game Master, Game Designer, Play Tester and fan.

So, Why not start my tour through the realms of Role Playing with a Topic that I know everyone has a opinion on. 4th edition D&D.

Even people who have never actually played D&D have an opinion on 4th ed D&D

That said, lead on McDuff!

Of course any conversation about the Rise and fall of 4^th edition Dungeons and Dragons it all boils down to the feeling that
A: 4th edition was not D&D
B: For some reason 4th made everyone mad , as if it was a personal insult against them- Which is something I never understood.

So let us address the issues and Guff around WOTC's 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons

1: 4th edition D&D was the worst gaming system ever made!

Wrong, If there is a Worst system ever made it is not 4th edition D&D, I assure you there are FAR worse piles of wasted paper out there festering in the galactic Waste Bin.

With out insulting any one, lets just say a Short lived Super Hero game and a very old Fantasy Game come to mind.

4th edition was a D20 Level based /Class based Fantasy Role Playing game. it was no better or worse then any other Role Playing game. there were parts of it that were Genius (the Skill Creep rules) and parts that were ,not.

Just like any other game on the market at any point in time, even above mentioned Horrid Systems had some redeeming quality, maybe it was an idea for a random something another table or an insisting way to do something but

4th edition as a System is not the worst system ever made.

2:It's Not Dungeons and Dragons?

No, I am pretty sure it is Dungeons and Dragons as it says so right there on the Cover. Wizards of the Coast presents 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons.4th edition Dungeons and Dragons is Dungeons and Dragons, It may be a System you love, or hate? I don't know, but it is D&D because it says so right on the Box and Dungeons and Dragons is Copyright Wizards of the Coast.

Maybe it was not your D&D because you were uncomfortable with the Rule changes and the perceived intent of the game. Maybe you preferred 3rd Edition,or a another Game all together.

Wizards of the Coast took a huge risk with 4th because they felt their audience had changed. This was the new Coke of RPG. Collectible Card Games and World Of Warcraft had in there eyes changed the playing field and they wanted to create a D&D that would resonate with there perceived current audience.

Well yes and no. It was there right to try and change the product because they “Believed” the environment had changed, and it was not the first time a Change in the Dungeons and Dragons system caused confusion and anger.

I have the ability to look at all this from a very unusual point of View in that I have been involved with D&D/RPG pretty much since it hit the stands 40 some off years ago.

When 2nd edition came of, people complained and said it was not D&D and went on to create there own games.

When 3rd edition came out, many people said it was not D&D and went on to create there own games.

When D&D 3.5 came out. We all got mad because we had JUST bought the books, but we played it. Some people did not like 3.5 and went out to find or write other games.

When 4th edition came out, Some people bought it, others did not like it and went out to Find other Game Systems or write there own. Many of the players switched to Pathfinder RPG from Pazio. Pathfinder was very well done and felt more like Dungeons and Dragons 3.75, it was an environment a lot of players felt more comfortable in.
But, For every person who did not like D&D 4^th edition there were people who did (Fourthcore).

And I am sure right now there is someone pointing at the 5th edition, saying it's not D&D and going out to create there own game.

It is the creators of the Game's right to try new things with the system, and it is your right to play it or not.

Gygax himself said that D&D was just the framework, he encouraged each of us to create our own stores and rules. Don't like something, change it-Look at Dave Hargreaves and the Arduin Grimore ?

4th ed not D&D, well what is D&D then? Dungeons and Dragons is: Tolkien Classic Races (Elf, Dwarf, Human, Halfling) + D20 +Classes (Fighter, Spell Caster, Rogue)+Levels+ ROLE PLAYING. Dungeons And Dragoons started as a Miniature Rule Set called Chain mail, which was inspired by WW2 Miniature Rule Sets. Which got there origin in Chess and Go. So what in fact is Dungeons and dragons?
That’s up to each individual to deiced for them selves.

It may not have been the D&D you were used to, it was a HUGE change from 3.5. An Experiment .It was new, it was different, it was the NWO coming in to WCW and changing everything we knew as True. Hoggen is a bad guy? D&D is this?

Truly, There was no one major symptom of the Switch that led to the Anger, Frustration and confusion. Perhaps had WOTC maybe called the system the EBERON RPG or the MAGIC THE GATERING RPG then who knows, a lot of the situations that evolved after 4^th Came out was due to the perception that WOTC was “Abandoned its loyal Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 fans for the CCG, MPORPG fan base.”

3:What went wrong

There are several factors that led to the , for lack of a better word, ugliness that followed in the wake of Dungeons and Dragons D20 4^th editions printing.

4^th Edition was not bad (See above) but!, how WOTC went about marketing it and getting it in to the public eye ? That may have been a mistake.

Mistake #1 : The OGL.

WOTC made the D20 3.5 system Open Source, any one could create product under the OGL banner as long as they followed specific rules. Mutant and Masterminds, True 20, Iron Age, Necromancer games and Dozens of others were putting out product at an amazing pace. Not since the early 80's had so many independent products come out. . It was an amazing time for game creators and writers, because any one could put out D20 product.
3.5 D20 was for a short period a generic system. Ok not everything worked under the OGL D20 3.5. There are just some intrinsic factors of D20 that don’t translate to non fantasy genres very well so there were some failures but mostly D20 OGL worked.

Then when 4^th came out they stopped supporting OGL and they “Supposedly” said Writers could no longer create and 3.5D20 OGL product. As far as WOTC was concerned the OGL did not exist, they never created it and we were not allowed to use it ever again! True? I for one never saw such documents or herd a Wizards Employ ever say that. That said, some aspect of the marketing and Philosophy about this new system led many individuals to believe this was true.

Unfortunately Once you make something Open Source, you cant unmake it. Pazzio, Frog God Games and several other companies continued to create product and there was nothing WOTC could do about it.

So they had this product and everyone else had another product. With Pathfinder coming out of the gate just weeks after 4^th hit the shelves and looking a lot like what 90% of the population felt D&D should look like WOTC was in a for a fight.





Mistake # 2: Marketing and Client relations.

What marketing there was for 4^th was not handled very well, that made a Joke of it. Remember that cartoon with the Gnome (I'm A Monster, Growl) or the PSA with the Guy holding a beach ball and saying this was D&D 4^th?

In the past when the D&D systems were changed, it was done via a Story Arc. Similar to Doctor Who's regenerations. Such year long Scenarios as The Avatar Trilogy, The Apocalypse Stone, The Spell Plague were all vast story Arcs they used to explain the changes from edition to edition

When going from 3.5 to 4^th, not so much. In fact the Vibe they gave off was 3.5 and everything before that never happened.

In addition there client relations at that time were less then Par. They just drooped 3.5 and stooped supporting it and the OGL. Leaving retailers with a Glut of 3.5 product including unfinished Story lines and they Supposedly were telling Retailers they could not Support 3.5 ?

Of course that did not last long, but the story’s go that for a few weeks there WOTC pissed off a lot of there small game shop retailers by the way they handled the switch. I don't know if that is true, this is just what I have been told.

I can tell you that the break of faith between 3.5/Pathfinder players and 4^th edition players created a lot of bad blood at various stores. I for one witnessed some Player on Player Violence because of the 4^th vs Pathfinder demographic

No matter how you slice it, several aspects of the 4^th edition Marketing and Philosophy were not handled Correctly by WOTC.

Remember though, Wizards of the Coast had also just recently been bought by Hasbro, so many of these choices were not made with “gamers” in mind but with “Money” in mind. With a perceived new audience, Hasbro took a risk that this new system would be the breath of fresh air the D&D market needed.

And it did need it.

Mistake #3 : Eberon.

4^th edition should maybe have been the EBERON RPG. Had they called it that, well, who knows.

For those of you Not familiar with Eberon, let me give you a quick history. WOTC did a contest to design there next product line, the winner was a Arcane Punk/Steam Punk world called Eberon. It was nothing like the Forgotten Realms or Grey Hawk or any Tolkien Like fantasy World we had seen before. Suddenly Steam Punk was everywhere. Eberon brought us Trains and Blimps and Mecha, other company’s jumped on the Arcane Punk bandwagon and soon the shelf’s of your retail store were covered in Products about Flying Ships and Steam magic.

This was not the first time technology had found its way into D&D. Science has a long history in the annals of Dungeons&Dragons. Expedition to the Barrier peek was about a Crashed Space Ship. The Ardiun Grimor had Guns and Mecha suits and the very first D&D adventure Temple of the Frog featured Computers and cyborgs so D&D had a long running Association with Jack Vance and E.R Burroughs fantasy/ technology Mix (Hey remember Thundar the Barbarian- Best D&D cartoon ever)

Eberon was different though, right place right time. Steam Punk/Arcane Punk was on the gaming public's mind. Between Comics (Battle Chasers), to Novels (The Disk-world and Dark Sword books) To Video Games (World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy) and of Course RPG (Shadowrun, Deadlands).

WOTC flooded the market with Eberon product, it was a new amazing Arcane Punk world that might just breathe some new life into gaming. Maybe?

Now the problem was, many a D&D fan felt the addition of Eberon broke the D&D fourth Wall and changed the game. Eberon was never meant to be something you added to your Forgotten Realm's game, it was it's own World with its own D20 rules. Just Like Dark Sun and Ghost light, never the two were supposed to meet. If you let Eberon System Stuff in to your D&D game, then it's no one's fault but yours if it broke the game.

The other Problem with Eberon was that Eberon came out for 3.5 and like a year latter 4^th came out. The fate of Eberon was left hanging.

This was Not the first time this had happened with there product, heck D&D 3.0 product was still coming out when the Switched to 3.5 and you had to buy everything again then as well.

WOTC did make things right a few months latter by putting out all new Eberon Supplements under the 4^th Edition banner (At $50.00 a Pop)

Lots of Players felt 4^th was the Eberon/Magic the Gathering RPG and not D&D so, Pathfinder

Mistake # 5: Nostalgia vs New Coke.

And now after slogging through all that Guff, we come to the real perceived problem that led to all the Anger and frustration that followed in the 4^th edition D&D systems wake.

Perception.

There is no question that the market had changed. Collectible Card games and On Line games had taken much of the RPG money and fan base out of the Pen and Paper RPG's pockets. Gamers were no longer converging at the Game Shop to play. They were either playing at Home or they were Playing On Line. The market had changed and the Powers that be behind Dungeons and Dragons at that time felt they needed to change as well (yet another Dr Who reference). We were not buying Hard back 3.5 product any more, on Line PDF's were taking a lot of the money away from the till. Why pay $50.00 for a product , when I can download a PDF for free and have it on my Pad, or print it out and bind it for a few bucks.

Hasbro saw a huge Youth market, they wanted to create a D&D that would sell to that market. A market they perceived to be made up of DDG players and On Line RPG players In order to lure that Money away from those products and back into the Pen and paper RPG pocket, there had to be a change.

They designed and created a Dungeons and Dragons that they felt would have the flavor and excitement that D&D needed to get it's fan base back.

The problem was, they had never lost there fan Base. We were older, we had lives and family now. We did not have the time and money to buy the many RPG products that were coming out back them. Not only was Wizards of the Coast putting out at least one new product a month, there were Dozens of other Companies putting out OGL D20 product that was as good or better then WOTC product and Often cheaper.

And yes we were using PDF's and yes many of us were playing Magic or Warcraft or using our weekend gaming time to have a real life, but the fan base was there and the Nostalgia market was huge, because we did have the disposable income to buy stuff if we wanted.

Because 4^th edition was designed to attract the younger CCG/MPORPG fan base, it chose to embrace a new philosophy. Like I Said, it was something totally different. In embracing this new environment, they left out any feeling of Nostalgia. Previous changes in the System had been Subtitle Add an extra race, change a few combat rules, add a few new classes, create a new world. The Rules from 2^nd edition to 3^rd were different but still recognizable and still had that D&D Nostalgia smell. Changes from 3 to 3.5 were also different but still had enough of a value to Players that they were willing to buy it again. Pathfinder looked so much like 3.5 D20 D&D that many people felt it was what 4^th edition should have been. Instead of a gradual change, Wizards of the coast went full on Drastic change.

D&D 4^th was, sadly not reconcilable as D&D to many of its older, more nostalgic fan base.

Many of this fan base saw this change as an insult, it angered them. How dare WOTC do this to there beloved Dungeons and Dragons. It got angry, they got ugly, they made bold comments that angered others. Many were turning away from 4^th and WOTC with out even actually reading 4^th or playing it. Nothing travels faster then gossip when you mess with something as ingrained in the mentality as Dungeons and Dragons was.

Things happened, shop keepers told there customers they would not carry 4^th Edition, players of Pathfinder and players of 4^th became angry camps arguing with each other. Like I said there was even Player on player Violence.

All over how 4^th was perceived.

Did WOTC feel it had a new audience whose attention it had to grab? Yes, its a fact. The Audience had changed. The world had changed. D&D had to be brought in to the 21^st century.

Did WOTC embrace the nostalgia of the previous versions of the game and thus maintain the loyalty of Older players. Sadly no, they did not.

Was 4^th perceived as the Magic the Gathering/Eberon RPG and not Dungeons and dragons. Yes it was.

Did 4^th edition work as a game that would reflect the On Line environment Nope.

If we wanted to play World of Warcraft, we would fork out $20.00 a month to play it on line. If we wanted to play A CCG, then we would fork out $20.00 a CCG. We wanted a D&d that reflected the current world but still gave the same old school feel of Role Playing.

The rules were different, they had new ways of playing the game. Some of it was goo, some not so much. At then end of the Day there was this perception and Hasbro/Wizards of the coast did very Little to change it.

Latter on the would put out 4.5 and call it the New Red Box, hoping to attract some of that Nostalgia. Some players got it while others saw it as yet another insult to there beloved D&D.

Things kept rolling, Hasbro changed, WOTC changed, 4^th edition changed. The online Old School RPG movement began.

The damage was done.

It no longer mattered what the truth was, what the rules were, if 4^th was any good or not.

People were angry! Ask yourself though what in fact did 4^th edition due to you/them personally? Did it break in to there house a 3Am and replace all there furniture with Folgers Crystals?

No it was a game, words on paper. At the end of the day, who cares. It certainly was not worth the aggravation that was caused by it.

On behalf of RPG fans, I apologize for the problems of 4^th. It was not perfect, it did not have to be. It was well within the rights of Hasbro/Wizards to put out a new game and to believe that the world had changed Yes there were aspects of the change that angered Nostalgic players but There were changes in magic that angered people, changes in WOW that angered people, changes in politics that angered people, there was a New Dr who and that angered people. Hell changes in Pro Wrestling that angered people (NWO for life). Things change, change can be good or bad but D&D had to evolve.

Unfortunately you change ANYTHING that people love and some of them will be unhappy.

4: Where did it go?
About Two years ago, 4^th just sort of -Went Away. Product was dwindling, Hasbro/Wizards were investing a lot of energy in Bored Games and Miniatures and not so much in 4^th. There was hardly any independent 4^th product coming out and the on line Forth Core Movement was beginning. After a while, the well ran dry. With Pathfinder in full swing and companies now putting out Pathfinder product, maybe Wizards decided it was time to just let the Boat Sink?

Who knows? It did just sort of vanish and then the letters came out that Wizards was starting Play Test’s for 5^th.

5: In closing.

Remember Loyal reader this is but one mans opinion based on the facts and ideas that were available to me. Its like that game, where each person describes what they just saw and none of the descriptions match. It's all relative perception

There were aspects of the System that were good and that were bad. There were choices that were made that in hindsight might not have been the best. People gossiped, the world was what it was.

I wish 5^th edition nothing but success, I’m am proud of my small part in it. I did not love 4^th, I did not hate it. I don't love Pathfinder, we will talk about systems I LOVE in the next post.

It was what it was, it for certain did not DESERVE some of the more volatile reactions it got.

WOTC did what they did for there reasons, we can ponder them till the end of time. It wont change how any of us live our life so,lets just tip our hat and move along.

Till next time Oh gentile reader, I have been Tiki Joe and I appreciate our time together, thank you for reading my Blog. Positive Criticism is always appreciated as are suggestions on what I should talk about next?

Be Excellent to each other.

*4^th edition, 4^th ed, D&D, Dungeons and Dragons, Eberon, The Forgotten Realms and all other variations on the theme are the Copyright of Wizards of the Coast and are used as reference only under the Open Source rules of the Open game License . No attempt is made to make any funds off the use of these names and I am only using them as they are Public domain.

• Pazio, Pathfinder, Necromancer games, Frog God Games are all recognized as Copyright to each of there companies.
• *Dr Who is Copyright the BBC.
  • *Anything I missed is legal copyrighted by the various holdings and no attempt is being made on my part to gain any forum of Funding by using these names and I are used under the Open Source, recognizing that these names are in the public.